What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

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What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by alasdair69 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:51 am

As a counterpoint to my other topic about what SimBrothel needs, I thought I’d open a similar discussion about what it can do without. By definition, this will be more subjective than the other but it’s likewise something that I feel needs to be considered. So to start things off, here’s a list of some of the things that I think SimBrothel DOESN’T need:

* Rape: This has been suggested in one capacity or another by several people and they almost universally said that it would add realism to the game. I can’t help but think that they don’t fully understand what ‘realism’ means in this context so let me explain. Realism means seeing a strong, proud woman reduced to a quivering mess just from REMEMBERING, sometimes after years or even decades have passed. Realism means trying to console someone when there are no words to lessen the pain, fear and shame and even a comforting hand on the shoulder causes them to flinch back as if they’d been burned. Realism means looking into eyes that once held unalloyed trust and seeing that trace of fear that they can’t quite hide just because you’re the same GENDER as the person who did that to them. Rape is real. It is horrible. It leaves psychological and emotional scars that never truly heal. It haunts its victims in one way or another and to one degree or another for the rest of their lives. And it is NOT something to be trivialized in a game about cartoon hookers.

* Kiddy Porn: And no, by this I do NOT mean Lolitas, but then again I actually know what ‘lolita’ means in this context. For these purposes, a lolita is defined as an adult, frequently one who has only recently reached the age of consent (a.k.a. ‘barely legal’), who retains traits seen in juveniles (the scientific term for this is neoteny) and therefor APPEARS TO BE younger than the age of consent. Which, of course, begs the question of just what IS the age of consent, anyway? Well, a little online research shows that the majority of countries around the world consider the age of consent to be between 15 and 17 for females, with a few going as low as 13 or 14, and have for years. Ahh, you say, but SimBrothel doesn’t take place on this world, and you’re right, it doesn’t. But a little more online research shows that the average age for sexual debut (when one begins to engage in sexual activity of one form or another on one’s own) ALSO averages between 15 and 17, with a lower range of 13 or 14, and has for years. Add to this the fact that in the historical basis for this game the overwhelming majority of courtesans began plying their trade between … wait for it … 15 and 17, with a few as young as 13 or 14, and it’s starting to look a lot like a consensus to me. So what does that mean for SimBrothel? Easy. Any girl who, in her own continuity, is 13 or older can reasonably be considered to be sexually mature and active in her own right and is therefor fair game. Any girl who, in her own continuity, is younger than that cannot. Consequently, Shinobu is a Lolita. Skuld is a Lolita. Sasami is a Lolita. Chihiro and Sheeta (at 10 years each) are CHILDREN. And if you genuinely feel that the game is made better with graphic depictions of children engaged in sex acts then I genuinely feel that society is made better with you being legally required to maintain a 100-yard distance from primary schools and daycare facilities.

* Pregnancy: I think the game works better without having to worry about it, but if you really insist let me tell you how to simulate it in your own game in three easy steps. 1) Have a girl see a customer and decide, through whatever criteria you see fit, that she has become pregnant. 2) After anywhere from 30 to 90 days have passed, give her the day off. 3) Leave her that way for the rest of the game. Remember people, the average human (and presumably humanoid) gestation period is approximately 276 days and it’s a 300 day game.

* Sexually Transmitted Diseases: Geeze people, morbid much? It’s a game, it’s supposed to be FUN, remember? Now, I’ve never had gonorrhea, syphilis, etc, but from what I hear ‘fun’ isn’t exactly the word I’d use to describe them.

* Death: see above.

* Tentacles: Period.

That’s all I can think of at the moment so I’ll open the floor to discussion and debate. Feel free to voice your opinions on what I’ve said or make your own suggestions of things you think the game can do without. Remember, if it takes a village to raise a child then surely a forum can help make a great game.

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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by ShiningRadiance on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:15 am

Skuld is actually between 12 and 17. 12-15 in the first season, and at least two years or so passed between the first and the second. Technically, then, she's at least 14.

Skuld has shown interest in Keiichi several times. So she does feel attraction toward males.

Skuld is not a child. She just has a flat chest. There's a difference.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by alasdair69 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:48 am

That would be why I said that Skuld was a ~Lolita~. If you're going to critique my posts (as I encourage everyone to do), at least read them first. LOL

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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by ShiningRadiance on Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:05 am

Ah, okay. I misread it and thought you said they were all children.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Wastedundeadgamer on Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:14 am

I think the game just need options buttons so people can block the stuff they don't want to see in the game but leave the stuff for the people who do want to see it in game. It should be up too the players but that is just my thought.

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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Blastburn on Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:42 am

Actually i would agree with the comment you made about Chihiro and Sheeta. No offence to the game makers but i have never honestly felt comfortable using them in my brothel when i would play the game... just personal convictions and all >_>

Chihiro could easily be a "whats next" to bring in... what was her name "Ponyo" XD... yeah no.

i am very much an advocate that there should be some sort of "screening" process to decide which characters and features are in the game.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Raed on Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:37 pm

A simple flag on each lolita girl and an option to tick them off is simple enough. This has been brought up before, and it's most likely lolita girls will be optional.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Midnight_Amratha on Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:43 am

In the context of discussing what Simbrothel does not need, it becomes imperative to deside personally what the parameters for playing the game is to yourself, in the first place.
I, personally, agree on the topic of leaving girls below the sexually active age out of the game. First it does not give me a thrill to see sexually explicit pictures with children of either sex, period. Second, there is the moral aspect because as sure as the day tomorrow will appear somewhere in the universe, someone in your social sphere will discover your game sooner or later and i do not know about the rest of you guys, but i do not want to be branded as a sexually aberrant person, slimy perhaps but not criminally interested in children. Therefore i totally agree about the no pictures of girls below the age of 13-upwards.

you write tentacles: period...... weeeeeellll i happen to disagree with you there, sure it should be an option, but since this is supposed to be a game happening in an alternate/fictional world i am not opposed to tentacles especially if it is clear that the women in question is enjoying the experience.

Something else i think should be made optional is Sado-masochism.
True, it is a socially acceptable sexual orientation though only marginally so but still its not something i would like to get in my face without accepting it.

Rape: rape doesn't have anything to do with sex or pornography. It is a power-issue where the rapist demonstrates the total control over the rapee mainly by humiliating the victim. If you feel you need that kind of power-structure i suggest you go play command and conquor.

There is one thing Sim-Brothel doesn't need and thats turning into a pure managerial game, the thrill of seeing new pictures of our favorite girls in delicious and compromising positions should be a given thing, not an afterthought.

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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by alasdair69 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:46 am

Well, I wanted to excite debate and I think I certainly accomplished that. Let me take a moment to respond to a few points that have been made with my own opinions.

Wastedundeadgamer wrote:I think the game just need options buttons so people can block the stuff they don't want to see in the game but leave the stuff for the people who do want to see it in game. It should be up too the players but that is just my thought.
I agree with you to an extent but if you get too crazed with it, throwing in options for every little thing, it presents a problem from a programming perspective. I know squat-all about coding but I do know that you have to approach any undertaking with two considerations in mind: the time and energy put into it versus the eventual payoff and the size and complexity of the finished product. Now, some may call me lazy (in fact, some already have), but I genuinely believe it best to take a streamlined approach until all the kinks are worked out. Then, if the time, energy and wherewithal are still there and the file size of the game isn’t prohibitively enormous already, start adding in other things such as certain additional content that can be toggled on and off as you describe.


Blastburn wrote:Actually i would agree with the comment you made about Chihiro and Sheeta. No offence to the game makers but i have never honestly felt comfortable using them in my brothel when i would play the game... just personal convictions and all >_>
I felt the same way, and not just because that pic of Chihiro makes her look like she’s going to crawl out of my computer and drown me in seven days or something. I know some people have said that they’re just drawings, and representing fictional characters at that, but that dog won’t hunt and I’ll tell you why. I’m sure it comes as a surprise to absolutely no one, considering that I played this game in the first place, but I find (well done) drawings of women engaged in sex acts to be, eh, ~kind of~ hot. Why? For the same reason that I find photos and video of women engaged in sex acts to be ~fairly~ hot. It’s because I find ~real~ women engaged in sex acts (preferably with ~me~) to be REALLY FRIGGIN’ hot. By the same token, watching a real ~man~ performing sex acts is highly disconcerting to me to say the least, while photos and video of the same is pretty icky and drawings are somewhat unpleasant. I either like or dislike each representation based on whether I like or dislike what it’s representing and the degree to which I like or dislike it is directly proportional to the degree to which it accurately represents it. It’s a psychological phenomenon called association and it’s true of absolutely everyone who thinks and reacts in a remotely human manner. What this means is that if you like drawings of children engaged in sex acts, then by definition somewhere inside, to some degree, you would like to view real children engaged in sex acts as well. Does it mean that you would definitely act on those urges? No, not at all. But not acting on them doesn’t negate the fact that they’re there and they’re ultra-skeevy. And contrary to what some people would like themselves and others to believe, the available evidence as to whether or not exposure to this sort of stimulus reduces or exacerbates those urges basically boils down to ‘he said/she said’ and ‘six of one, half-dozen of the other’. Now, maybe it’s this lack of reliable statistics, the desire to not give the conservative right more ammo or just that I’m a father myself, but I can’t help feeling that pornography involving children (i.e., under 13) is inherently objectionable and has no place in this, or any other, game.


Raed wrote:A simple flag on each lolita girl and an option to tick them off is simple enough. This has been brought up before, and it's most likely lolita girls will be optional.
Okay, now I’m confused. When you say ‘lolita’ here, are you talking about the patently underaged, like Chihiro and Sheeta? If so, I think I’ve made my feelings on the matter pretty clear by now. Or are you talking about actual Lolitas, i.e., girls who appear to be underage but in actuality aren’t? Because if that’s what you’re talking about I fail to see what all the fuss is about. By definition, Lolitas are of legal age, they just have certain characteristics that some people find more sexually attractive than others. I know I gave up my right to have a say in any of this but it seems to me that making anything optional based solely on the fact that some people wouldn’t find it as sexy as others is kind of silly. After all, not everyone likes Grand Teton breasts either, some of us prefer more … Petite Tetons … but I somehow doubt Big Boobs are going to become optional. Besides, if someone actually turned Lolitas off then half the girls in the game would disappear. LOL


Midnight_Amratha wrote: you write tentacles: period...... weeeeeellll i happen to disagree with you there, sure it should be an option, but since this is supposed to be a game happening in an alternate/fictional world i am not opposed to tentacles especially if it is clear that the women in question is enjoying the experience.
I’m mostly against tentacles because in almost every case where the word ‘tentacle’ is found it is followed by the word ‘rape’. As for the women enjoying the experience, I could go on for hours about all the crackpot misogynistic twaddle I’ve read where a sexual encounter begins with a rape but ends up with the woman having the time of her life and begging for more, but I won’t. I won’t even get into how it’s technically bestiality (since SlaveMaker, already established as a sibling game to SimBrothel and sharing the same world, made it abundantly clear that tentacle beasts are not intelligent creatures). Instead, I’ll simply point out that every instance of tentacle sex I’ve ever encountered in any medium where the woman enjoyed it, it was due to secretions from the creature that stimulated her sexual responses and rape with roofies is still rape. However, I don’t deny that there could exist certain women who would, in fact, enjoy the experience of their own accord. And even if no such woman existed the theme is so overwhelmingly prevalent in hentai of all stripes (actually dating back to the Japanese historical period that forms the basis of the game), that I doubt it could be effectively done away with. I personally feel the game doesn’t need it and since the girls stay within the confines of their brothels for the entire duration I’m not sure how one would go about getting tentacle raped in the first place. But if enough people want it in there I just ask that I and others like me be able to turn it off for our games.


Midnight_Amratha wrote:Something else i think should be made optional is Sado-masochism.
True, it is a socially acceptable sexual orientation though only marginally so but still its not something i would like to get in my face without accepting it.
Hokay, maybe I’ve missed something but I don’t remember any instances of S&M in either version of the game beyond an oblique reference to Bondage School in the first one and a suggestion to add a dungeon as a building upgrade for the second. Nor am I aware of any plans to implement any more ‘hands on’ S&M into the game, although if such plans existed I wouldn’t necessarily be aware of them anyway. However, in the event that any flavor of Sadomasochism ~is~ added, I agree completely that it should be able to be turned off for those who do not wish to be confronted with it.


Midnight_Amratha wrote:Rape: rape doesn't have anything to do with sex or pornography. It is a power-issue where the rapist demonstrates the total control over the rapee mainly by humiliating the victim. If you feel you need that kind of power-structure i suggest you go play command and conquor.
Finally! Someone who gets it. And for the benefit of those who still don’t, I’ll further support my assertion that SimBrothel does not need rape with two additional arguments.

* I am a middle-aged, middle-class Caucasian male in the eastern United States who has led a fairly average life. I may not have always lived in Mayberry but I don’t think I ever even knew which side of the tracks ~was~ the wrong one, let alone spent any time there. And yet, in my lifetime I have known personally ~five different women~ who have been raped. One of these was held down by her ~boyfriend~ at the age of 15 while three of his friends took turns with her. Another was used by her husband as a wager in a ~poker game~ and when he lost he locked her in a room with the winner until the deed was done. Now, before anyone is tempted to consider my experience with this matter as extreme and atypical, let me quote some statistics: In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute, resulting in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes each month and 683,280 rapes each year. 1 out of every 3 American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. 1 in 4 college women have either been raped or suffered attempted rape. 1 in 12 male students in a survey had committed acts that met the legal definition of rape. And most telling of all, only 16% of rapes are ever reported to the police. It’s out there, all around us, and if you look hard enough you’ll find it. Trivializing (or even glorifying) it in a game, even one like SimBrothel, is an insult to all the women affected by it and should be avoided.

* As has been stated, the women live in the brothels and while the focus of SimBrothel is on the girls a little common sense will tell you that they can’t possibly be the only employees, especially when you get into the larger buildings. Standard procedure, from the teahouses of the Yoshiwara up to the Mustang Ranch in Nevada, is to have a sizable staff of big, strapping men to do all the heavy lifting and other sundry work that the women are too precious or just plain busy to be wasted on. Another bit of SOP in the business has always been to have a given set of signals so that if a customer gets dangerous each and every one of those big, strapping men drops what they’re doing and comes running to beat him into chunky salsa. Under those circumstances, when and where could a rape actually occur anyway?


Midnight_Amratha wrote:There is one thing Sim-Brothel doesn't need and thats turning into a pure managerial game, the thrill of seeing new pictures of our favorite girls in delicious and compromising positions should be a given thing, not an afterthought.
I don’t think anyone, anywhere, has ~ever~ considered taking the pics out of the game. I know I haven’t and I don’t even pay attention to them most of the time; for me, the managerial aspect is what I play it for, the challenge of tweaking the efficiency of my operation and getting progressively greater returns on my investments. But even so, the eyecandy adds a welcome bit of spice to an occasionally dry gaming experience. But whether you consider it a hentai game with a managerial tone or a managerial game with a hentai tone, I think it’s safe to assume the hentai will always be a part of the equation.

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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by ShiningRadiance on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:49 am

I have a question.

How about if a girl is forced into a position that they willingly choose to work in the brothel? Like going poor, and this is the only place that'll let them work?
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Cloud on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:11 pm

ShiningRadiance wrote:I have a question.

How about if a girl is forced into a position that they willingly choose to work in the brothel? Like going poor, and this is the only place that'll let them work?
I've always kinda figured that the main reason behind the decision to become a prostitute is because the girl in question has nothing else they can do. Not really something I can see anyone willingly choosing to be honest.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Joshua2000 on Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:05 am

i agree on the tentacle thing, since this is a brothel, its not like in slave maker having your girl going to crappy slums or some random docks, or cow girl farms. it just seems out of place.

as for the Chihiro and Sheeta thing, duno poolka added them, make a poll in order to see if any one actually likes them. first and we see what happens from there.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by ShiningRadiance on Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:10 am

Uhh...

Well, you could always have them work the streets if you run out of rooms. That's what I'd like to have. But that's just me.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by alasdair69 on Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:44 am

ShiningRadiance wrote:I have a question.
How about if a girl is forced into a position that they willingly choose to work in the brothel? Like going poor, and this is the only place that'll let them work?

Cloud wrote:I've always kinda figured that the main reason behind the decision to become a prostitute is because the girl in question has nothing else they can do. Not really something I can see anyone willingly choosing to be honest.

Hokay, I’m pretty sure I know where ShinRad’s question came from and Cloud’s comment brings a rather surprising response, but before I get into that I’d like to clarify something. Looking over my various posts regarding rape in the game, I can see that there’s one very important thing I didn’t make clear and I think it’s caused some confusion, for which I’m sorry. With, I think, only one exception, everything I’ve had to say about how SimBrothel very much does not need rape in it has been in reference to the actual gameplay itself. Various people have suggested rape occurring as a random event or as a possibility during Take A Walk scenarios and ~that’s~ what I was referring to. The minute I play any iteration of this game and encounter a situation where a girl is sexually assaulted and essentially goes, “A man I don’t know just threw me down and had his way with me. Oh well, I guess it’s back to my day job of letting men I don’t know throw me down and have their way with me”, I’m shutting it down, deleting the files and never playing it again. THAT is trivializing a truly horrible thing that affects millions of women around the globe and THAT is what SimBrothel can very much do without. The only reason I didn’t do exactly as I just described with SlaveMaker is because I was only playing it as research for SimBrothel anyway since I’d been told they occupied the same world, or at least parallel versions of it. Stories are a completely different phenomenon. Due to being a compassionate person and to my own personal experiences with its effects I don’t like to think about rape and I certainly don’t like to read about it. But sticking your head in the sand and pretending it doesn’t exist is ~also~ an insult to those who’ve suffered it. Hells, I even wrote about a rape once. I didn’t want to and I didn’t enjoy it but I’d reached a point in a story where it was unavoidable so I realized the best thing I could do would be to knuckle down and do it right. It ended up being some of my best, most disturbing work and was destroyed as soon as it was no longer necessary. I didn’t sleep right for about a week afterwards. The bottom line is this: if rape is to be handled at all, in any medium, it needs to be afforded the seriousness and deliberation the topic deserves. There simply isn’t time or space in a game like SimBrothel to do that if it occurs during play so it shouldn’t be used in that capacity. If it is absolutely necessary in a story and not done gratuitously, then it should be handled with care and intelligence, with realistic consequences for the victim. Oh, and it should have a warning flag on it so I don’t have to read it.

Right, now that that’s out of the way let me say that I’m actually kind of glad this came up because it lets me act all knowledgeable and stuff again. LOL That’s right folks, it’s time for another of alasdair’s Obscure Historical Trivia lessons. As has been stated, this game is initially based on the Yoshiwara, the prostitute quarter of 17th and 18th century Edo, now known as Tokyo. During its heyday, the Yoshiwara was home to over 3000 prostitutes in an enclosed area of approximately 17.5 acres and there were ~lots~ of reasons for them to be there. Some of them simply enjoyed the sex and thought, hells, I might as well get paid for it. Some actually considered it a form of public service (long story). Some simply had nothing better to do, believe it or not, and prostitutes weren’t really looked down on any more than any other form of merchant for the most part. Quite a few considered it a grand adventure, coming from the outlying rural areas to rub elbows (among other body parts) with the high society of the time in the capital. Several enjoyed the feeling of empowerment they got from the fact that men came from all around and actually paid them to spend time with them. And, as odd as this may seem to us today, rather a lot of them used prostitution as a way to meet men. You have to remember that in feudal Japan women were very much second-class citizens and unmarried girls spent most of their time toiling away in their fathers’ businesses, be it farms or shops or what have you. And marriages were typically loveless, arranged affairs that resulted in the girl toiling away in her ~husband’s~ business instead. But even a poor girl from the boonies, if she could raise her rank and status among the courtesans, could possibly find a samurai or noble who, if she made him happy enough, could be convinced to buy out her contract and set her up as a pampered concubine. By far though, the single most common reason for a woman to become a prostitute was money. Maybe her family had too many mouths to feed and the crops hadn’t yielded as well as they’d hoped so they were in massive debt. Or perhaps her husband had a gambling problem and owed too much money to the wrong people. A girl might be an orphan with no one to turn to and no way to make a living or a widow whose husband’s estate had been seized during one of the many political and societal shakeups of the time and she found herself in dire straits. A procurer was always ready to offer a lump sum payment in exchange for a signed contract for a certain period of time spent working in a brothel. And far from being vilified for doing so, girls who unselfishly took it upon themselves to help their families in this way were celebrated and held up as the very model of filial piety, with the best poets in the land writing haiku about them. So yes, money was often the prime motivator in a girl becoming a prostitute but there were plenty of other reasons as well and depending on how far she was able to climb in Yoshiwara society, being one was something they could actually be proud of.

This brings up another, semi-related tidbit. Remember all those shakeups I mentioned where samurai and nobles were stripped of their status and lands and set to wandering without a pot to piss in? Their wives and daughters were intelligent and elegant, graceful and refined. They could read Chinese, sing, dance, play various musical instruments, and were skilled in flower arranging and the tea ceremony. Once these high-class ladies were forced to turn to prostitution it set the stage for the gradual ennobling of the profession and the rise of the courtesan from the ranks of the lower ‘pleasure women’, all the way up to the Oiran that SimBrothel is all about. In a very real way, they could be considered the precursors of our ‘Noble’ theme. Pretty neat, huh?

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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by alasdair69 on Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:48 am

Joshua2000 wrote:as for the Chihiro and Sheeta thing, duno poolka added them, make a poll in order to see if any one actually likes them. first and we see what happens from there.

Okay, when it comes to Chihiro and Sheeta (and Sakura apparently, donno how I managed to miss that one) it's not a matter of whether anyone likes them. It's the fact that they're children, plain and simple. Factual or fictional, photographic or artist-rendered, kiddy porn is kiddy porn and I don't think it belongs in SimBrothel. Or on this planet for that matter, but I can't do anything about ~that~.

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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Cloud on Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:17 am

O.o

Excellent history lesson, I rather enjoyed it.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Joshua2000 on Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:30 am

yea i was familar with the feudal japan thing (not so elaborate but enough of it)

so iv never been a fan of it, and even then it goes with my whole its a city is has gaurds and stuff, i mean considering what they off i think the girls should be able to get some extra protection.

second of all, what ment was, if hypothetically, no one has interest in the two (i know radiance likes sakura so she will at least defend her, but i duno about the other two) you could get karel_ll to tke them out, like you suggested for FE in the other topic.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Raed on Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:03 am

Just because you like ketchup doesn't mean you like tomatoes.

And from the programming point of view with the ticks, it should be fairly easy, you go through the girls and put a 0 if they're normal, 1 if they're loli, 2 if there something else, 3 if they're both. It should be extremely simple. The hardest part would be making the menu to click from, and even then, that's only a couple lines.

I defined lolita as underage, underage, not appearing underage, my apologies. That's the way I learned it and I didn't think when I posted it.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by alasdair69 on Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:33 am

Joshua2000 wrote:second of all, what ment was, if hypothetically, no one has interest in the two (i know radiance likes sakura so she will at least defend her, but i duno about the other two) you could get karel_ll to tke them out, like you suggested for FE in the other topic.

Raed wrote:And from the programming point of view with the ticks, it should be fairly easy, you go through the girls and put a 0 if they're normal, 1 if they're loli, 2 if there something else, 3 if they're both. It should be extremely simple. The hardest part would be making the menu to click from, and even then, that's only a couple lines.

I like you both, we’ve always gotten on well together and I understand what you’re both saying, I really do. I wouldn’t try to dictate to you what you should do with the game even if I could, but I have to stand by my own principles in the matter as well. Kiddy porn should not be in the game, period, and I honestly can’t fathom how this has even turned into a debate, how anyone could possibly believe differently. I’ll give Pooolka the benefit of the doubt, assume that he didn’t think about it like that when he first put them in there, and maybe no one made the connection before I pointed it out, but now that I have? Why is this even being discussed? Now, as objectionable as it was, their presence didn’t stop me from playing the game before and it ~probably~ won’t in future, and if they absolutely have to be there then the option to turn them off is as good as I suppose I can expect. But everyone (well, almost everyone) has seemed to value my opinion up to now and I have to tell you, my opinion is that kiddy porn is exploitative, predatory and wrong and including it in a game lowers everyone involved a few rungs on the evolutionary ladder. And no offense but so far the only justification I’ve heard as to why it should perhaps be retained is because someone may like it. Well, some people like furries and Western animation characters too, neither of which is this morally and ethically objectionable, and both of those have been flat out denied, end of discussion.

As I’ve said, I can’t enforce my personal feelings on the matter on anyone else and in a game built by committee like this I wouldn’t even try. And if everyone else agrees that kiddy porn should be a part of SimBrothel it probably won’t keep me from playing it, I’ll just be first in line to use the ‘off’ option. But I have to wonder if whatever reasoning you guys and anyone else are using to justify including these patently underage characters engaged in sex acts would be sufficient for you if we were talking about your sister instead.

Now bear in mind that I don’t have anything against the characters themselves, it’s the depiction of ten year olds in sexually explicit situations that I object to. If a way can be found to keep the characters in the game without the kiddy porn I’d be all for it.

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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Midnight_Amratha on Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:26 pm

Sorry guys, but i totally agree with Alasdair69 on the subject of removing kiddyporn. I'd rather delete the game than keep it on my comp if you insist on keeping patently underage children in that kind of game. It's not meant to be a threat its just my personal opinion on that subject.

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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by ShiningRadiance on Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:28 am

Well, we could... make it so we do what WM did and change days to weeks.

Then we can put in ages, and make it so the younger ones have to be in your possession for about 3 or 4 years before they can start working sexually, but make it so they can be trained non-sexually in that time. We'll have to make training areas again.

To be fairer to a more... present culture, set their ages to 13-14, and make it so they can't work until they're 18. If they look like they ccan pass for 16, 17, or 18, then set their ages to 18. If not, then set them to 14.

As for the pictures, the argument could be made that their body just didn't grow in that time and they're just really, really short.

If you SEE the years pass, it might be better, psychologically.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Raed on Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:08 am

That's way too much changing the game around for something that's not a necessity, or even highly desired.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by ShiningRadiance on Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:18 am

Actually, as he said, it would be more accurate, as underage girls did join, but as sort of interns, just the way I'm suggesting.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by alasdair69 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:06 am

Actually, ShinRad may just be on to something there. Not the whole 'weeks' and 'ages' and 'watching the years go by' stuff, I agree with Raed on that. But the 'interns' part. In the Yoshiwara they were called Kamuro and each high-ranking courtesan was typically assigned two. They served as her personal assistants, doing maid work around the brothel and running errands, etc for her and in return she taught them the ... ahem ... ins and outs of the profession. She made sure they learned everything from reading, writing, music, etiquette and the social graces to how to wrap a man around your little finger. They learned the details about sex by watching her take customers from the next room through a latticed screen. In fact, 'Oiran', which was an inclusive term for the higher ranks of prostitutes, actually came from the phrase "oira no tokoro no nēsan", or 'my elder sister', which is what the Kamuro called their sponsoring courtesan.

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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

Post by Cloud on Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:37 am

That actually might fit along with an idea I had earlier concerning improving the courtesan's performance by improving their style of life.
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Re: What Does SimBrothel NOT Need?

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